Lila: Looks like another one bites the dust. Al and Tipper Gore are going to separate after 40 years. After 40 years, why would you go through the formality of divorcing? They claimed to have grown apart, so go ahead and just live separate lives. What are they going to do now? Start dating again? Can you imagine starting all over again in your 60’s? I would just suck it up and live the rest of my life quietly. I understand they are in the public eye so anything they do will be scrutinized, therefore they have no choice to make it official. But Warren Buffett is in the public eye and he never divorced his wife. He just left her alone and spent time with his real lady-love.
I remember when I was working at the bank, a lady came in for advice because she was in her late 50’s and was having to start all over again. Her husband decided, on the eve of his retirement, that he did not want to retire with her. He was going to divorce her and remarry his long-time mistress, who was his secretary. Can you imagine that? OMG!!!! She had devoted her whole life to him and their family and then he decided to end everything when they were on the last leg of their trip of life. I was shocked. Why didn’t he just continue with the charade? She knew what was going on. She said she would have preferred that over the humiliation that she had to face every day. So sad.
Beatrice: I don’t know that I agree only because I watch my parents who are both in their early 60’s and are actually very active, traveling all over the world, taking classes, watching their grandkids and spending a lot of quality time with other 60 year olds. They are all having the time of their lives being retired. I wouldn’t want to damper it with a failed relationships, especially one where you have to live with the person you are no longer in love with. That would be horrible. I would rather be by myself than pretending in a marriage.
Unfortunately, I think divorce is on the rise for those going into retirement because the couple does not want the same things in their life. There are also a lot of couples who only stay married for the sake of their children and once the children are gone they have to deal with each other and well that just won’t work.
L: Yes, but your parents are happy and enjoy each other’s company. I am not saying they have to live together. I think it would be better to be upfront with the family and say that there will be a different arrangement. They can live apart and get together during major family events. Why go through the hassle of getting a divorce, splitting your assets, etc. There are major consequences for that action. Just move out and live separate lives. That way, the couple are not staying together for the sake of children.
My friend, Mike, has parents that are very unusual. His parents are separated and have been for decades. They live apart, they have separate lives, date other people, and only come together at major functions. His father is one of the best divorce attorneys in town. Can you believe that? Anyway, he knows the consequences of a divorce and believes it is better to just stay together.
I think my feelings are embedded in the thought that you don’t need to get married unless you are planning to have children and raise a family. At the same time, you don’t have to get married just because you are expecting unless it is something that was planned all along. Two mistakes don’t make a right. On the flip side, you don’t need to get a divorce after being together for sooooo long if you are not planning to remarry and start, again. Of course there is one caveat, the relationship you are currently in is not dysfunctional or abusive in any way.
B: It seems that you have thought a lot into this topic. I have not. I can see your side of the issue and the side that people want to be completely removed from their past and the way to do this is to completely separate, i.e. divorce. Mike’s father is smart because he has a lot to lose in order of divorce, however the wife has a lot to gain. Many people who are 50 and older don’t consider it too late to start again, and they may want to remarry and in order to do this you can’t stay married.
L: I have thought a lot about it because I have spent a lot of time alone and able to just watch relationships flourish or in some cases, diminish.
I have read that most divorces are initiated by women. Maybe you are on to something. Most women have more to gain from divorces and that’s why they want the complete, clean break. As women become more and more of the main bread-winner, we’ll see less divorces.
B: I don’t think we will see less and less divorces, they appear to be on the rise. It may go down in percentage because fewer people will opt out of marriage. However I think people don’t see marriage the way it was 50 years ago. It is a sacred thing to me, however more and more view it as a nice thing to have. But if it doesn’t work out, then so be it; at least they gave it a shot. It is too easy to divorce and even know you are talking about the money side of things, that is not often an issue with most people. Most very well-to-do people have prenups, and then there is the not-so-well-to-do people who have nothing to begin with. The ones in between just split everything 50 / 50, and they know that going into the divorce so it is appealing to them.
L: I truly believe in the sanctity of marriage. I don’t think you can embark on it willy-nilly. It is a serious commitment, but it is not also a necessity to have in order to have a fulfilling life. Who knows what is going on these people’s head? I know several people who have wedded a few times and wonder to myself why do they keep trying? If it wasn’t working for them after the second marriage, why try it again? It makes no sense to me. I would just give up and say marriage is not for me. Maybe they should make it harder for people to get married.
B: I think that is the answer we need to make it harder to marry, not just pick on the gay community, but all of us.
L: Here here sista. We should make it harder for everyone. Make it such a pain in the a$$ that people don’t even want to bother unless they truly belive in it. Then the devoted will be the only ones that will get married.
B: I second that! It would just get in the way of the Constitution and then it would become a fight if it were to be done that way. Oh well, at least some of us believe in it for all the reasons it was put into existence in the first place.
L: According to this article, couples divorce after decades of being married because they are living longer so they don’t want to spend their golden years with someone they cannot stand and divorce is more acceptable. I guess that makes sense, but I am a practical girl. I would just move out.
Read the article here: Why call it quits after decades of marriage?
B: My parents are one of a lucky few, although my mom will say that my dad is often weird as he is aging. LOL.
Lila: I was at Starbucks this morning and I thought what an interesting place to watch people. I saw a couple of women gabbing about their evenings. I saw some very sleepy business people. I, also, saw a cute young couple. They must be newly dating because they were really affectionate. He was hugging her and holding her hand. He fed her a chocolate donut. So cute. Remember when you first started dating you honey and how sweet things were. Hmmmm….
Beatrice: I do remember those days. Toolman is still very much affectionate and touchy feely, but it is me who gets annoyed by it all. I guess once I had kids I got all my touchy feely with the kids who are a constant and sometimes you just want your space. We still hold hands out and about, and he has to touch me in public, but that is who he is, whereas I am not that affectionate of a person in general.
L: You’re not? I grew up in a family that was not affectionate, but I am with Oliver and especially with Thomas. Cannot stop kissing that little guy. My brother has become affectionate since he’s been with his wife. I guess we both changed even though our family weren’t.
I was driving and thinking about those days. It was one of those lovely mornings and I wished I could play hookie. We use to walk everywhere and take our time with everything. I miss those days. I need a vacation.
B: I am super affectionate with my kids, more so than my parents ever were with us and they are extremely affectionate little ones. I am not affectionate with my mate though, and never have felt really the need to be. Toolman is super affectionate and I just play along.
You will be on vacation in July right? We have a week off at the end of June for 4th of July in Breckenridge. My brother and his family will be joining us too. Cannot wait. We were planning on Mexico for October, but that will all depend on a few things.
L: I think I crave the affection. We got a huge sectional so we can both fit on it laying down. TMI?
Yup. I will be out during the first 2 weeks. I’ll be at the happiest place on earth…Hawaii.
B: Actually I think they discovered the happiest place on earth is Vienna Austria. Which by the way is one of my favorite places, of which I have visited. They have cobblestone drives. They shut down at lunch times and everyone goes home for two plus hours, even taking the kids out of school for family time. Shopping is amazing. The arts/music and buildings are to die for. They ride their bikes everywhere and are just so happy. Would love to take Toolman there some day. I know that HI was ranked high for the states, specifically Honolulu, which was surprising as it is a busy place. I need to go to HI, and I was just thinking about this on my way home from work yesterday.
L: I did not mean Hawaii per se. I actually am not fond of Honolulu. But our ranch on Kauai is the happiest place on earth for me. If these people could see it, they would concur it would make them happy. But they can’t, so it’s our family secret.
B: I think after traveling I have found many of those places. A lot of it comes down to who you shared your experience with as well.
L: That’s so true. It’s the happiest place for us because there were so many good memories.
B: I dated a guy who would travel the world, and typically do so alone. He would call me more times than I cared for. I remember telling him that it is great he travels, however he needs to do so with someone since it is hard to be excited about these new places by himself. That statement kind of bit me in the ass because he started booking me on all the trips with him. I got to go and that was fun, however he was not the best of company.
L: That’s not too bad. You could have said no if you did not really want to go.
Oliver and I alway say that one of the best things about having a life partner is now you have the chance to share experiences together, like going on vacations and exploring together. Awww… A new relationship is all about sharing and exploring.
B: No, he would buy the tickets and then tell me. I am sure you can figure out who I am talking about. There was this one time he bought a Mercedes and one of their offers is to purchase it in Germany. Once it was done being built, we would fly out there to pick the car up out of Stuggard’s Mercedes plant, and drive it through Germany and Austria. They told us mile by mile where to go to end up each night at the most amazing of bed and breakfasts. At the end of two weeks you say goodbye to the car and wait for it to be shipped back to the USA. I helped him pick out the car before it was done, so he thought he would surprise me and put my name on the car as joint owner. This allowed me to go on this trip. He made me drive the entire two weeks. Germany drivers are scary, and I was a wreck. I do however envision redoing this trip with my own car and Toolman. 🙂
L: I know who you are talking about. But you could have still said no. He did not threaten to hurt you or anything. You were just smitten by him. The things we would do when you think you are on love.
B: You can’t really say no when he pays for tickets in first class. There were 4 times that I had school and had no way out of it and chose not to go with him. He called me early on in my marriage to Toolman asking that I meet him at his office to sign over my tickets. I told him where to go. The tickets were years old and already no good, so he wasn’t trying to get me to do anything with the tickets if you no what I mean.
L: Stop talking or even thinking about him. You know he messes you up. He was the past and he has made you a better person because you have learned from the mistakes. Let it go, otherwise you are going to have nightmares tonight. I did not bring up this topic to discuss him. I wanted you to focus on the positives in your life. He is toxic. No more!!! Sorry to has to be mean, but I hate knowing you get worked up over this fool.
B: Oh I won’t have nightmares and after I confronted him several months ago, I had my closure and peace.
Beatrice: Looks like Heidi Montag finally hit her limit with Spencer. There are reports that she moved out and in with a friend and is considering divorce. I hate to say this, but I can see that guy doing something really dangerous if she leaves him for good. He has become a loose cannon.
Lila: I read about that this weekend and I think it is part of a publicity stunt. Heidi claims in her letter that she is moving out to get some space and film her new reality show with Jenn Bunney, but she said she is not quite ready to pull the plug yet. I am sure he irritated her, but I think she is still in love with him and knows they can make more money from being crazy Speidi than average Heidi and Spencer. At the same time, I think it’s like the people involved in domestic violence relationships for her. Walking away is hard.
B: Well that is just stupid, if they are doing this as a publicity stunt. I would not want the entire world thinking my marriage is a complete wreck.
Speaking of hot topics, did you see the baby boy who weighs 55 pounds and is a chain smoker. What the hell!
Watch the video here: Smoking 2 Year Old
L: Well, I really think Speidi is crazy, but I also think this is now part of their ploy. With the end of The Hills, so does their income stream. They have shopped for shows, but no one wants both of them. He is a loose cannon and unpredictable. So she has to leave without leaving. Don’t you think that is plausible? I mean, who plans a photoshoot as she spends time to “reflect” on her relationship?
See photos here: Heidi’s Reflection
I have not seen it, but I heard them play the clip on Kevin and Bean. That is just so sad. Why would you give a baby a cigarette? That’s not even funny.
B: Heidi needs serious help, maybe they should be shopping for that. He, on the other hand, is a lost cause.
Yes, this baby is over 50 pounds, still wears a diaper but can smoke. I think he should be taken away from his parents. Parents of the year award is what they deserve. Geesh.
L: All that attention has gone to her head. And boobs for that matter.
I need to look up that kid on YouTube. What is wrong with these parents?
Did you hear the interview with Jesse James’s mistress, Michelle McGee? She claims wearing the Nazi outfit was not racist. Anti-Semitic, but not racist. What a loon?
B: Yes, you do need to see this kid. How can he chain smoke and do such a job that he looks like a 60-year-old man who has smoked his entire adult life, but can not figure out how to use the potty? His father was quoted as saying nothing is wrong with it and he seems to be healthy. Even if he didn’t smoke the baby is not healthy weighing more than my 5 1/2-year-old son.
I did not watch Michelle McGee’s interview. She is pathetic! I still don’t see why she is considered attractive.
L: OMG…I just watched it. This is HORRIBLE!!! How can all those people stand around and just smile at the baby? How can the mother allow this to happen to her son? doesn’t anybody care? That is not healthy. I have so many choice words to express, but I cannot get it out coherently. That is ridiculous!!!!
Yuck…you know something is wrong with her when she decided to get her face tattooed. What a freak show.
B: The baby smoking is a disgrace. I think this video coming out will blow up in the parent’s face.
Yes, I am sure Jesse James feels like a freak show too!
Beatrice: Hey there. How was your weekend? What did you all do? We had birthday parties, bbq’s, Tiny Town playdate and movies. We rented the movie Dear John and it was so good. We also rented Invictus which was great too. I really loved the movie Dear John and the story about John and his father. I cried a lot in that movie. Today is Brody’s last day of preschool and then tonight he has preschool graduation.
Lila: Hi there! I am working from home today because Oliver is having minor surgery. We had a fabulous weekend. Thomas was attached to me the whole weekend. We, too, had a birthday party, BBQ, and in between the events, we redecorated Thomas’s playroom. We spent a ton of money on furniture and stuff. Then we repainted the room after he went down. It was packed.
We, also, watched Dear John. I had seen it previously and loved it so I made Oliver watched it. He loved it as well, but not as much as The Notebook. I thought the story was poignant and sweet. I did not expect the ending to be like that at all. Oliver wanted the ending to be happier and more obvious that they were going to get back together. I love love love that movie. I told Oliver I want to buy it and have it in our library.
The movie Dear John is definitely one to buy! I loved the ending, and thought it was pretty obvious they were still very much in love when he went to visit her after his dad’s funeral and once she started writing. I was so happy he did not die in this movie, because I fully expected that by the way the movie started. The part where he goes to the hospital to visit his dad and read his letter to him, and his dad finally hugs him, oh boy did I lose it there. I loved the parts with his dad, so endearing.
When he read that letter during the intro, I thought it was meant for her, but when he really read it to his father, I lost it. That guy is my kind of guy. Rough, tough, and yet oh-so-sensitive. And hot as well. Loved him. I did expect him to die because all Nicholas Sparks books seem to end in some sort of death. I love that he lived and they got a second chance. I remember when I first watched it, I kep thinking about it. It was sooooo sweet. It is a movie I can watch over and over again.
So Oliver is having a minor surgery? Did you have to take him and pick him up? I remember when Toolman had a “minor surgery” which is what they classified his wisdom teeth removal but it was a big ordeal for me because I had to do everything. LOL.
I love the letters that were exchanged. They sounded so sweet. What I still don’t understand was did she marry the other guy before or after the cancer?
Beatrice: So this past weekend we had our playdate with the nerd and her 3 children. We went to Tiny Town and it was fun, however she is one strange bird. The thing is that she saw Toolman at every soccer practice and because her son likes our son, she would talk to him. When it came time to asking us about setting up a playdate, she asked Toolman, while I was sitting right next to him. She only addressed the question to Toolman, of which he told her to get with Beatrice. Then she sends me the email, since that was the only way she can contact us, and asked about places and times to meet. However that morning she called the house and left a message for Toolman saying she was running late and if he thought they should bring coats. Kind of annoyed me. Toolman is not a stay at home dad. He is laid off for 7 weeks and she is treating him like the stay at home dad. It is bizarre to me that she keeps asking him to do stuff with the kids and not me, even after Toolman told her to ask Beatrice.
The other thing that has been annoying me lately is how Toolman acts with other children and he does not even know how it looks to others. He is trying to get E’claire out of her shell so that she will talk to other kids, but the way he does it makes me mad. I basically told him last night to knock it off, that she is who she is and she will figure it out in due time. Brody was a social being from day one and E’claire is more to her self or the bossy one. She has no interest as of now to engage with other kids. She is only 3 and will start figuring it out very soon. Brody was not the norm. I guess he is bugging me because he is more outgoing to total strangers than he is his own family and close friends.
Lila: Okay, you might get mad at me for saying this, but here it goes….
To an outsider, they will see Toolman as the main caregiver because he is the one at all the functions. He may be temporarily laid-off, but people don’t see that. They figure that since he has nothing else going on, he must be in charge of all the family duties as well. We both know this is not the truth, but people just don’t know. Trust me, I know because people always assume Oliver is in charge of everything. It’s really hard to accept their reactions because you play such an integral part of the parenting.
And as hard as it is for you to accept the perception, it is much harder for Toolman to accept. Oliver and I have talked about this over and over, again. There is a stigma to being a “stay-at-home dad” or, in your case, being the only father at an all-mothers event. Here is a little piece of advice I want to share with you, while Toolman is temporarily being the “main caregiver,” you have to trust him to take care of the children in the best way he sees fit. If he feels that this is the way to get E’Claire to open up, you have to let him try. He is a parent, too, and you have to let him trust his instincts. If it doesn’t work, he will see it eventually and abandon the attempt. And if you think about making a suggestion, you have to be very careful about what you say so that you don’t sound like you are criticizing him.
There have been so many times when I have not agreed with what Oliver was doing, but I had to let it go and trust him to get it right. His intentions are good. It’s so hard to bite my tongue, but I have to let him try.
B: Oh I hear what you are saying, however I am not the type to bite my tongue and he knows that . So I will tell him how it looks when he does what he does. As far as his reactions around other kids, I had to tell him what it looks like to parents. He has good intentions, which I made a point to tell him this however he should know what it looks like from a trusted source. Hopefully this stay at home gig will end soon.
L: It’s really hard on a guy.
B: No kidding. It is hard on a guy who does not choose it. He does not want this and doesn’t even try to embrace the time he does have.
L: I think it is really different for men because they don’t initially define success as being a family man. I think it takes time for them to realize how important it is. For women who have to raise a family, they sleep better knowing their family is safe. For men with a family, they are at ease knowing they have provided for their family, therefore their job and careers are more important. Don’t you think? That’s why Toolman has a hard time embracing this time with the kids.
B: I totally agree!
L: For a lot of men, they realize the importance of family way too late and regret things. By that time, the kids are out of the house and then what? They can’t get that time back. It’s too bad really.
Watch the Jesse James interview here.
Lila: Did you watch the Jesse James interview on Nightline? I could not stay up that late, but I watched it online. What a shmuck! I don’t feel bad for him at all. I cannot believe he did that to her when all she did was love him. He claimed that it was on his own accord and he was being self-destructive. Jerk.
Beatrice: I did not watch it, but have seen clips of it and have seen commentary by media. The commentary I read and watched was that he had shopped his interview to Barbara Walters and Diane Sawyer, who both turned him down. Apparently it was rehearsed and calculated. Did it appear that way on the interview?
L: It was hard to accept because Sandra Bullock has been nothing but awesome to him and his kids. He blamed a lot of his behavior to the mistreatment he received from his father. I can totally see how his father was a hard-a$$ to him. His father abused him physically and emotionally. I can see that happening. It was another piece evidence that showed corporal punishment does not work.
Would you, as a mother of two, ever spank your children?
B: I am not totally against spanking, so I would not say that I would not do it and I have spanked my kids. Sometimes time out doesn’t work, nor does taking their toys away. My parents spanked me and my brother, and it got our attention. Is it something I would do automatically, no. But there are times it is effective. I think spanking is different from what Jesse James is saying his father did to him.
L: I was spanked as well. But after a while, my brothers and I would rather have the spanking over any other punishments. This was because the physical pain was temporary and as a result I did not think it was very effective. My brother swore he would not repeat my parents’ method because he thinks it led to his anger management issues, like Jesse. My brother is very strict with his girls and they are good girls. Oliver and I have decided no spanking for now. We think violence begets more violence, but we’ll see.
B: I think it is easy to say no spanking when you have an infant, as Toolman and I said the same thing, but we have done it and it is very affective. We have done it once on Brody and threatened E’claire with it, so it isn’t something we have done too often. I think it is a different issue if it is being done repeatedly. I remember being spanked two times in my life, and it was warranted and very effective. I do however think the discussion of whether to spank or not to isn’t really a discussion amongst most, but rather an argument. So I don’t typically join in on these topics, as I have seen it explode and I am not one who is going to judge another parent for what they deem appropriate when it comes to discipline. I don’t believe spanking is physical abuse.
L: Like I said, we’ll see. We said a lot of things we weren’t going to do, but we do it.
I think with Jesse James, it was beyond just a spanking. And for my mother and grandmother ( not my dad) spanking was excessive. It was the way back then.
Lila: Yesterday you mentioned you thought Toolman’s friend, Steve, was weird. One of the reasons you brought up was the fact that he was involved in a common-law marriage. Do they have kids? And do you consider that type of relationship weird?
Beatrice: I do not think he is weird because he is in a common-law marriage. I was just trying to give you a glimpse of who he is. That is a huge part of who he is and has major committment issues. No, he and Gayle do not have children, but have a lot of dogs, the yap-yap kind. They have been together for over 20 years, but mention marriage and he freaks out.
L: Do you think getting married is the ultimate sign of commitment? He’s devoted 20 years to her and the dogs. Isn’t that a commitment in itself?
B: You are putting words into my mouth. I never said his commitment issues are due to not getting married, I just say this because he says this. Again, I don’t think it matters if people put a ring on it. He has commitment issues based off of his own comments saying that he does. He has told Toolman that if he were to marry Gayle, they would get divorced. He likes everything separate. We have told him that he is technically married since they live together. But they do not own the home jointly, so he argues that they are not considered married. He has his name on the home but Gayle is on all of the utilities.
For me, I would not choose this but that is their perogative.
L: Oh no, I am not attacking you. It’s hard to convey your every thoughts when you have it written down. I am just trying to strike up a topic.
He’s probably a strange guy for having 5 dogs. That is weird. 2 is okay, 3 is pushing it, 4+ is ridiculous. On the other hand, I understand where he is coming from. If I were him and did not want to have children, I would not marry either. I know a few couples who have made a lifetime committment to each other without getting married. I think they have a super healthy relationship. I also have cousins who have had children and have never married for whatever reasons. I think that is weird.
This guy, Steve, does not realize this,but if they ever broke up, she can sue him for palimony and will win. He has taken care of her for so long, the courts will find in her favor.
B: With regards to the court issue, we have told him this too. I have even said to him that if it is a topic of discussion then he should question what he is really doing. I would hate to find out that the guy I have devoted my last 20 years to is going around telling people how so not married we are and how he keeps things separate for that very reason. Guess what, I bet their beds are not separate.
L: Well, it’s their weird life. If she likes it, then there is nothing else to do. But if he is dissatisfied, she should grow some balls and let him know he is disrespecting her.
B: She may very well not care, as she is a perfect match for him. I have only met her a handful of times, but not your typical mid 40 something.
L: Then good for her. She has made her choice for her life partner.